Difference between revisions of "Talk:Helping Out"

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(New page: == Long Pages == I've been looking through [http://wiki.fallensword.com/index.php/Special:Longpages this page] and I see a lot of pages that are listed higher up with a bit of unneeded inf...)
 
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:<span style="color:#060">In the long run, I am a bit skeptical that 'long pages' are very detrimental to the performance of the wiki. Perhaps the concern would be the time it takes to read them from the database, but I believe that the server hardware is quite capable of handling the load (our FSP purchases at work). If the concern is the bandwidth used, 100,000 bytes is pretty irrelevant except to someone on dialup.</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
 
:<span style="color:#060">In the long run, I am a bit skeptical that 'long pages' are very detrimental to the performance of the wiki. Perhaps the concern would be the time it takes to read them from the database, but I believe that the server hardware is quite capable of handling the load (our FSP purchases at work). If the concern is the bandwidth used, 100,000 bytes is pretty irrelevant except to someone on dialup.</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
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What I'm seeing is that a few Profile/Guild pages have more than 20k bytes of information.  When I'm looking into these pages, I see a lot of information that is either common or repetitive.  Take a look at [http://wiki.fallensword.com/index.php/Crystal79#Current_Stats this], you can see a lot of repetitive things, taking up space in cyberspace.  I'm not pointing any fingers, but like you said, Long Pages are very detrimental to the performance of the Wiki, and therefore, more pages containing a bit less information on each page will do less harm, if not make it better.
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The [[Map Tilesets]] page has been viewed 5 times, so it's not much of a problem, and as for the sortable item lists, it'll be done soon, eh.  {{User:CHiNback/Sig}}
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:<span style="color:#060">lol, that example page you gave is also the most edited page in the wiki... Anyway, there isn't much we can do about user/guild pages.</span>
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:<span style="color:#060">I'm not trying to nitpick, but you did misquote me there. I do not think that long pages have much of an effect on wiki performance, especially since the load on the database would be no different than a lengthy thread on the forum. I also just went through the php code used for [[Special:Longpages]] and there is no magic number that determines if a page is long or not. Instead, it is just a simple query that finds the 50 or so longest pages in the wiki. Likewise, the [[Special:Shortpages]] just finds the shortest pages. Also, if the database starts getting too much of a load, there is a [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Job_queue Job Queue] to deal with it.</span>
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:<span style="color:#060">Anyway, I personally don't think this is a major issue at the moment. Let us finish getting on all the items, creatures, and areas, and then revisit this issue.</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
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==Multiple Edits==
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{{EditPolice}}
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== User Pages vs. Player Pages ==
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<strike>
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<span style="color:#060">Do we want to make an official wiki policy on this issue and start moving and redirecting player pages to their user pages so they don't clutter up the main namespace?</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
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:<span style="color:#888">That would be cool, we could then not have duplicates.  What's worse, cluttering up the main namespace or more redirects?  Anyways, I'm for this idea.</span><br>{{User:CHiNback/Sig}}
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::<span style="color:#060">Right now, clicking on '[[Special:Random|Random Page]]' on the left side has a chance of bringing up someone's player page and I really don't care to be seeing random player pages when looking for random corrections to make. However, I doubt it would bring up a redirect since you have [[Special:Randomredirect]] for that.</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
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:<span style="color:#888">What are we waiting for?  Do we need to vote?  Or are you just asking for opinions?  Anyways, When you decide, I'll join in.</span><br>{{User:CHiNback/Sig}}
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::<span style="color:#060">I think it would be interesting to hear the opinion of one of the people that don't use their user page. However, I doubt many of them contribute often enough to join in this discussion. I say the moving should commence anytime since it will automatically create the redirects, but the question then is do we only list user pages in [[:Category:Players]] or do we only list the redirects? I know right now I have [[Belgrave]] listed instead of [[User:Belgrave]], but that's only so it fits in with all the other pages listed there.</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
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</strike>
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<span style="color:#060">All player profile pages will be placed on their appropriate User:YourName pages.</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}
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==XP==
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I know that everyone hunts with doubler and with Adept Learner, as well as Elite Hunter, and maybe even Librarian.  To find the XP of each creature if you're attacking at par level is easy:
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* If you would, take a few shots at a creature without any of the buffs/enhancements, and find the min/max from that, or
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* Take the XP you gain from each battle, divide by Doubler (usually 3 or 4), level of Adept Learner (1.5 at Level 150 AL), and around 1.2 for Elite Hunter.  This second option is less accurate, but will prove to be enough for a certain while.
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== Quest Guide ==
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<strike>
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Just curious as to who it was that changed the Quest Guide page? It didn't use to be the way it is now. I remember it being sorted by level. It's now harder to navigate. It can be done by going over to the level column and clicking on the icon in that box, but that's a hassle. I would try and change it, but I don't know enough about doing any of this, other than trying to correct spelling.
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Thanks for reading,
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Ironranger
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Guild Inverness
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Thank you to whomever re-edited the Quest Guide pages. Comments above can be stricken now. Thanks again.
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Ironranger
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</strike>
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:<span style="color:#060">I've still got the last two pages of the quests to do, but it's a start!</span><br>{{User:Belgrave/Sig}}

Latest revision as of 16:38, 13 December 2008

Contents

Long Pages

I've been looking through this page and I see a lot of pages that are listed higher up with a bit of unneeded information/text. This text will lag FSwiki because each letter takes up a certain amount of space measured in bytes. We should all be considerate and do what is best for the Wiki by editing out repetitive parts and such.

The Map Tilesets page could definitely be broken up into smaller bits, but right now I don't think it is much of an issue since I doubt it gets many views (I didn't actually check).
The next longest pages are the sortable item lists. I am in the process of remaking these with slightly different information and removing unnecessary comment tags. So far this helping reduce the length of the page (example: Sortable List of Weapons was reduced by over 10,000 bytes despite my adding many more weapons). I do not think these pages should be broken into smaller pages.
That leaves the rest of the longest pages: various Areas and User/Guild pages. The Area pages can get lengthy when they have the maps on them, but the maps can be useful when planning for areas you are not currently traveling in. The user/guild pages we really have no control over, so I don't think much can be done about those.
In the long run, I am a bit skeptical that 'long pages' are very detrimental to the performance of the wiki. Perhaps the concern would be the time it takes to read them from the database, but I believe that the server hardware is quite capable of handling the load (our FSP purchases at work). If the concern is the bandwidth used, 100,000 bytes is pretty irrelevant except to someone on dialup.
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 


What I'm seeing is that a few Profile/Guild pages have more than 20k bytes of information. When I'm looking into these pages, I see a lot of information that is either common or repetitive. Take a look at this, you can see a lot of repetitive things, taking up space in cyberspace. I'm not pointing any fingers, but like you said, Long Pages are very detrimental to the performance of the Wiki, and therefore, more pages containing a bit less information on each page will do less harm, if not make it better.

The Map Tilesets page has been viewed 5 times, so it's not much of a problem, and as for the sortable item lists, it'll be done soon, eh.                  CHiNback - [ Talk - Message - PM ]

lol, that example page you gave is also the most edited page in the wiki... Anyway, there isn't much we can do about user/guild pages.
I'm not trying to nitpick, but you did misquote me there. I do not think that long pages have much of an effect on wiki performance, especially since the load on the database would be no different than a lengthy thread on the forum. I also just went through the php code used for Special:Longpages and there is no magic number that determines if a page is long or not. Instead, it is just a simple query that finds the 50 or so longest pages in the wiki. Likewise, the Special:Shortpages just finds the shortest pages. Also, if the database starts getting too much of a load, there is a Job Queue to deal with it.
Anyway, I personally don't think this is a major issue at the moment. Let us finish getting on all the items, creatures, and areas, and then revisit this issue.
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 


Multiple Edits

EDIT POLICE
Go ahead... make all of those small edits to a single wiki page. I know the server and the hardware can handle the load, but you will definitely know it irks me when I mention on your talk page how you're clogging the recent changes page!

Take my advice... plan out what you wish to add to your page and do it all in one big worthwhile edit. Also, USE THE 'PREVIEW' BUTTON and make sure you have it perfect before you save. Don't give me a reason to get all 'bad cop' on you!


User Pages vs. Player Pages

Do we want to make an official wiki policy on this issue and start moving and redirecting player pages to their user pages so they don't clutter up the main namespace?
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 

That would be cool, we could then not have duplicates. What's worse, cluttering up the main namespace or more redirects? Anyways, I'm for this idea.
                 CHiNback - [ Talk - Message - PM ]
Right now, clicking on 'Random Page' on the left side has a chance of bringing up someone's player page and I really don't care to be seeing random player pages when looking for random corrections to make. However, I doubt it would bring up a redirect since you have Special:Randomredirect for that.
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 
What are we waiting for? Do we need to vote? Or are you just asking for opinions? Anyways, When you decide, I'll join in.
                 CHiNback - [ Talk - Message - PM ]
I think it would be interesting to hear the opinion of one of the people that don't use their user page. However, I doubt many of them contribute often enough to join in this discussion. I say the moving should commence anytime since it will automatically create the redirects, but the question then is do we only list user pages in Category:Players or do we only list the redirects? I know right now I have Belgrave listed instead of User:Belgrave, but that's only so it fits in with all the other pages listed there.
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 

All player profile pages will be placed on their appropriate User:YourName pages.
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 

XP

I know that everyone hunts with doubler and with Adept Learner, as well as Elite Hunter, and maybe even Librarian. To find the XP of each creature if you're attacking at par level is easy:

  • If you would, take a few shots at a creature without any of the buffs/enhancements, and find the min/max from that, or
  • Take the XP you gain from each battle, divide by Doubler (usually 3 or 4), level of Adept Learner (1.5 at Level 150 AL), and around 1.2 for Elite Hunter. This second option is less accurate, but will prove to be enough for a certain while.

Quest Guide

Just curious as to who it was that changed the Quest Guide page? It didn't use to be the way it is now. I remember it being sorted by level. It's now harder to navigate. It can be done by going over to the level column and clicking on the icon in that box, but that's a hassle. I would try and change it, but I don't know enough about doing any of this, other than trying to correct spelling.

Thanks for reading, Ironranger Guild Inverness


Thank you to whomever re-edited the Quest Guide pages. Comments above can be stricken now. Thanks again.

Ironranger

I've still got the last two pages of the quests to do, but it's a start!
— Belgrave, Moderator / Sysop  Talk  Message PM 
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